Cheerful Goodbyes

Title: The Draft Beer Activity description: We are each going to draft Cheers characters who we would most want to join our own retirement party. Method: a popcorn snake draft. Rules: Then after you pick your person, you're going to choose which of the three of us gets to go next. And then whoever goes second gets to pick the person that goes third. And then once we've got our draft order, we're going to use that to snake back and forth. Activity premise: who in their prime would you want to be at your party? Competition adjudication competition established: True Adjudication method: Brad, why don't you power rank him?

Rules: Whatever Fraser character you pick, you are going to get a secret, hidden new Fraser character as well that you don't get to pick. They just are tied to them. And because Fraser and Diane were the only two cheers characters left and they were not tied to a new Fraser character, they're a pair. You get both of them. Method: I have put in white text on a white background, all the names for the new Frasier characters. I randomized them. So I do not know who is paired with which Frasier character. So this will be a surprise to me as well.

Welcome to Reverse Psychology, the Fraser Rewatch podcast where we go backwards through every episode of the show. Tonight, we're covering Season 9, Episode 21, Cheerful Goodbyes, which originally aired on April 30th, 2002. Was this Cheers reunion the last dying breath of must-see TV? We'll find out. I'm your host, Curtis Sheck. Joining me as always, it's our resident upside-downer. It's Ryan Santone. Curtis, hello. It's good to be here tonight. I hope we're talking mugs. We might get to mugs. Also with us is our big shooter. It's Bradley Kirkston. Boom, boom, boom. B-Rad is here for all of you. Ladies, men, people of any size, B-Rad's here. What? Why did you try to jazz him up? I mean, you see how he delivers. It's going to be terrible. Don't call him big shooter. He was doing what seemed impromptu in what the words were, but the way he delivered it sounded like he was really reading it carefully. It sounded like he was doing a table read, and it was his first read. Well, today we also have a special guest with us. It's a man whose name everyone knows. It's photojournalist Kenny Sheck. Oh, thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you for being here. Photojournalist Kenny Sheck. I was recently actually called on air for my work as a photojournalist, which I was like, wow, I didn't know that was going to happen. Are you one, and is that a thing? Yeah, it is. And are you one? Yeah, I guess I technically am. What's a photojournalist? Is it just a journalist that doesn't do what? I work for a TV station, and I shoot news, and I shoot and edit news, so I put together a story without a reporter, basically, so that made me a photojournalist in that moment. Wouldn't that be a videojournalist? Yeah, but they just call him photojournalist. My technical title is actually photographer and editor, but I just shoot video, so I don't know. I think it's very old school terminology that never changed. It is old school. Well, speaking of old school, we are diving way back into the 80s tonight. That's a good transition. But this is all about Cheers, the TV show Cheers, where Frasier originated, so we're going to get into that later. But first, which show do you all prefer? Are you a Frasier fan or a Cheers Cherubu? Cherubu? I had actually planned out what to say earlier, and then I didn't write it down, so I had to figure it out. Ah, you landed it. Cheers champion, that's what I was going to say. Are you a Cheers champion? So much better than Cherubu. I'm married to Cherubu now. We're not switching from that. So if you do prefer the show Cheers, just know you're being ambasted with the phrase Cherubu. Oh, son of a bitch. That's another word I don't know. Is that an offensive term? What the hell's a Cherubu? I don't think it's, is it a word? I think it's just. It sounds like a, it sounds like a word. I was trying to alliterate and it got away from me. Can we get a country of origin? America. I just came up with it. It's not a word. I just looked it up. There's Cherubu. And there's Caribu. And you mix Cherubu and Caribu. I can define it. It's a Cherubic Caribu. But seriously, Kenny, why don't we start with you? No, no, one second. A Cherub can refer to a sweet and innocent baby. So you've combined a sweet and innocent baby with a Caribu. Yeah, baby Caribu. A Cherubu. This is just what they're called. This is what they know. The world knows this. One of you, please tell me what your favorite show is. Okay, I'll go first. So for me, it's Cheers. I have, in recent years, I have an antenna on my house. And so I occasionally just flip through the channels. Speaking of old school. I know. It's like, okay, I don't really know what I want to watch. I'll just flip through channels till I figure out what I'm going to go watch on YouTube or whatever. And often, Frasier and or Cheers is playing on one of these rerun channels. And I'll watch like a couple minutes of Frasier. But then if I land on Cheers, I end up watching the whole episode. Whoa. I enjoy it more. It's a better show all around, in my opinion, I think. Do you get it on TV land? What station is this coming across? So here's the thing. There are like, there's like 10 like TV land channels now that you can get for free with an antenna. So there's like Mii TV, Retro TV, Catchy, Cozy. Like there's all these dumb name channels, but they just play reruns of old shows. And so one of them, you know, is always showing Cheers at night. It's like Cheers and then Taxi, which is a pretty good time. And then one of them shows Frasier. And I'll like, I'll show a bit, watch a bit of Frasier. But I find that I actually get sucked into an episode of Cheers. I think it's just got like, like, I'm not a person that ever like hung out at bars or I wouldn't want to hang out at a bar. So naturally you gravitate towards Cheers. But there's something cozy about like, I kind of want to hang out in this bar for 30 minutes. Got good news. Cheers is unlike any bar that's ever existed in human history. That's why I think it's like, I would hang out here, but it's not like a real bar. But I like the characters. I think it has one of the best ensemble casts that any sitcom's ever had. It really works. Like, Frasier's got a good cast, but I think Cheers has just got more nuance. It's a little, it's just all around a better show for me. Fair enough. What about the rest of you? So I've actually never seen every episode of Cheers. I've probably seen half of the episodes. You've never seen every episode? Such a weird sentence. I've seen half of the episodes multiple times, but I've never seen every episode once. Was it like the first half or was it some stupid Brad thing where you did like, you know, I'll just randomly roll the dice and watch a Cheers episode. He was on his 90s run. He only watched the 90s episodes of Cheers. I've seen random ones. Why? Do you go to Kenny's house and watch on his antenna? What do you mean? No, I've just, I've just never sat down and watched it like you guys have. I just never have. How are you randomly encountering it? Like throughout the years, you know, when I was a kid or randomly be on TV. It was on TV a lot back in the 90s. Are you saying that you've never, you've never done the binge watch where you go on to Netflix and start on the first episode. But when you were a person who watched TV the way my brother apparently still does, you would flip through channels, you'd see a Cheers and you didn't know what episode it was. You would just leave it on. Correct. Are you sure it was Cheers? Yes. How do you know it was Cheers? Because everyone knows my name. And because of that, I will go with Frasier just because I have watched it multiple, multiple times. And I think Frasier is funny for the most part. So I'm going team Frasier. I like how you phrased how often you've watched Cheers. And then for Frasier, like multiple, multiple times. Thank you. It would be weird for me to pick Frasier. I've only seen what I have to assume is we're certainly in the worst stretch of episodes they've ever had. And I assume season nine and ten are going to be like real blights at this point. So I'm hopeful there's a lot of good to come. But Cheers knocked out of the park 11 seasons. I crushed it. And it was great. And it would be weird for me to choose anything else. Yeah, I'm not going to find fault with any of those answers. I will say that I got to go Frasier. Like somebody's got to represent Frasier in this thing or a Frasier goddamn podcast. I mean, Brad did save Frasier. Yeah. Yeah, but I don't count that as a win for Frasier. You mean someone who knows how to answer a question has to say Frasier. You and Kenny are the only ones that have watched every episode of both series. So let's say no one answered, right? How would you, what would you have first said? No, it was always going to be Frasier. I like Cheers a lot. I think because when we were growing up, Frasier was on. And so, yeah, we had Cheers reruns occasionally. But I saw a lot more Frasier than Cheers. So I think I have a much stronger nostalgia pull to it than I do of Cheers. Cheers wasn't one of your mom's shows? I think it was. But I would have been like four when it ended. Yeah, that's the thing. It's like, here's, I mean, my mom bought a VCR purely because of Cheers. Is that real? Is that real? Yeah, she worked nights. Oh, right. And she was going to miss Cheers. So she was like, we need to buy a VCR because if I'm going to be working these nights, I still need to watch that show. That woman has her priorities straight. Why is this just coming out now? Curtis, when are we going to tell us this story? I didn't know this story. This is the kind of story you only get when you're slightly older and you were conscious of these things just a hair earlier than I was. You know, I know Frasier was something like we, you know, it was regularly on and it was new, but I feel like I watched a lot of Cheers on Fox 8. But maybe I was staying up later than you because I was always staying up late. I don't want to misrepresent this. I watched a lot of Cheers reruns. I just watched a lot of reruns of every bad 90s show. Yeah, it's true. We shouldn't lump Cheers in with every bad 90s show. That's not fair. Cheers was excellent. I was not lumping it in. I was saying I've watched a lot of Cheers. I've watched a lot of Frasier's and I've watched so much that is shit and enjoyed it. I understand what Curtis is saying. 90s shows especially just went on loops for years and years and years. You could watch any 90s sitcom everywhere it felt like. Hence why I got so big into Step by Step. Idiot. Oh, sorry. I don't know how that happened. I do. That's correct. Well, let's find out how this retirement party happened, shall we? You should say let's retire this conversation. Well, yes, I should have. You still can. No. No. No. It's too late. We all know it. It wouldn't be honest. No, we're nothing if not honest. We open with a train running through Seattle. On the radio, Frasier tells the tale of Niles as betwetter. Roz wants to use Frasier's apartment for a party while he is away at a conference in Boston. I missed that we were going to Boston at the start of this. I was so, so, so thrown to see Cliffy. That's great. You know, sometimes you like, you know, you're not in Frasier mode when you turn on the episodes. Sometimes it takes two lines for me to jump in. Ryan, I actually have to give you credit because you said a couple of episodes ago that you feel like Frasier doesn't always wear suits. And then boom, the first scene, he's not wearing a suit on air today. So I got to give you credit for pointing that out. I thought he always wears a suit. What was he wearing? I did not notice this. A sweater. He was wearing a sweater. A red sweater. Look, he wears sweaters a lot. I just, I felt like every time he did the radio, he wore a suit. So I was surprised to see that. Was it casual Friday for him? To defend you though, we are clearly in this shit period of writing. So like, they probably were just thrown in the towel. How is that defending me? I don't know what you're talking about. I'm saying like, we're writing, we have bad episodes, right? We're in a really bad block. We'll talk about whether this one's bad or not. But like, clearly the writers have given up at this point. They're just like, wear whatever you want, Frasier. Who cares? Still not sure how that's defending me, but I appreciate your help. You'd probably block this, you know, this stretch of episodes out. I see. Nobody knows what you're talking about, but we've got to move on. I just think I'm making some perfect sense. This is bad. Kenny, can you decipher what he's getting at? No, and I don't even know if I care. He's like the Frasier writers. Since we do have brothers on this, have either of you ever gone on the radio to talk about your other brother bedwetting? I thought you were going to just ask if either of us were bedwetters. We don't host a radio show. It's not quite the same thing, is it? Oh, I guess we do now. Do you guys want to throw you brothers under the bus? No, thanks. At least you just move on. Frasier kind of worked in this scene. This is maybe the second time we've seen it. You mean he kind of did his job? Yeah. He talked to a person and kind of gave them advice. The count might be two where we've actually seen him give someone advice. And the first one might have been Spokane. Yeah. Most of the time when he's giving advice, we're just kind of coming in for him right before commercial. And he's basically, it's usually some kind of a punchline thing where he's basically making fun of the person he's supposed to be helping. Right. 100%. He's just making fun of his brother. Yeah, this was a welcome change. He was trying to help someone by making fun of his brother. Well, and it is a lot of fun when Roz comes in and says, That was kind of brave to admit you were a bedwetter. Oh, Roz, pay attention. That was Niles, not me. To me, it was so obvious it was Niles from the moment he started with the bunk above me or whatever. And I'm like, yeah, obviously he's talking about Niles. I thought that was really weird. Did anyone think he was talking about himself? No, but we've seen a history of Roz not picking up on very obvious things. Remember when she was trying to get with the prison inmate and she thought he was a college student? In this episode, she thinks it's plausible Frasier is a bedwetter. And like one episode, maybe two episodes from now, she's even like, yeah, I'll sleep with that. Maybe she's into it. Maybe she was helping. She would have slept with him in this episode, but he said no, it was Niles. We get a title card and it took five days to carve a jack-o-lantern. The Crane family has landed in Boston and happen across Cliff Clavin, who invites Frasier to his retirement party. Niles was like too butthurt about the pain. Like no one cares, Niles. No one knows you as the brother of Frasier. We know this because it never comes up when he's famous in the police investigation. I think the fact that the flight attendant might have, you know, looked at him weird also did not help the case. Probably looked at him weird because he's very clammy and scared looking. Well, you say he spills his water all over himself, so he probably looked like he peed himself. No, that's true. And Ryan, I'll defend you like a normal person would in the fact that I'm also clammy and weird looking on a plane. So I get it. And a bedwetter. And a bedwetter. So yeah, it all comes full circle. Do you ever get weird looks on airplanes? Every day. I was on an airplane twice last week. That doesn't actually answer the question. No, I really don't actually. I kind of keep to myself and don't talk to anybody in an airplane. So that may be the most normal thing you've ever told us about yourself. Yeah, 100%. We probably have to cut it. It doesn't fit your character. Ryan, I'm very curious how you feel about this because you notoriously hate Marty. But I love the enthusiasm that old man has for wanting to see his bag come down his chute. Oh, annoyed the hell out of me. Oh my God. Really? I thought that was a funny line. When you guys come on, I want to see my bag come down the chute. You don't find that endearing? That's because you all like Marty. And I guess, I don't know. It's like, I don't even know what to compare it to. It's like when you watch your dog do something. It's just like, oh, this is fun to watch. He sucks. Yes. So, so Ryan, you kind of, you kind of talked about a little bit, but since you were so oblivious to what this episode was about, what was your reaction when you first saw Cliff? I wasn't oblivious because I saw Cliff in the like thumbnail. Oh, like when I went to start the episode. I just didn't know we were going to be in Boston. Should we write to Paramount Plus and just tell them, hey, can you just hide the thumbnails for us? You keep spoiling things. This is Hulu, so. Well, I'm not going to write to Hulu. They're not going to listen. Mickey. Yeah, we can't write to the House of Mouse. It was very unclear why Cliff was at the airport until he explained it at the end, but I was just like, why is he randomly at a bar at an airport? One of the things that I found interesting about this episode in re-watching it was I remember feeling like the entire episode for some reason was at an airport bar. Thank you. Oh, that would have been so fun. You know, obviously as it goes on, it's like, oh, it's at a hotel bar or whatever. But I always in my memory was like, why is it that they just are hanging out in an airport because Cheers is booked? I wish we had a strong enough fan base to write in and tell us if they had the same thought because this might just be a weird Sheck family thing because I absolutely went into this expecting the entire thing to be said at the airport. I think it's the set dressing for the bar that the rest of the episode takes place in doesn't look that different from the one we just like whatever he's hanging out at right at the beginning. Like it just is like that's the same set just slightly redressed. And it doesn't feel like a bar. It doesn't feel like a real bar at all. Yeah. Was it even a bar? I thought it was just like a party room. It is absolutely a party room. Yeah, it's a party room at a hotel. And the only reason I know it's a hotel is because the one dude comes down with a bucket. We do learn in this scene that absolutely this retirement party is not going to be hosted at Cheers. But does it seem crazy to anybody else that it wouldn't be a Cheers? Like I get that they couldn't build the set for one episode, but it feels crazy. When it started, I thought it is like so lazy. It was like we can't afford to rebuild that set. We can't afford to get everybody like Sam and Woody back as well. Or they were scheduling conflicts or whatever. So this is a cheap excuse not to do it. But as the episode goes on and it's clear, nobody really wants to give Cliff a good goodbye anyways. I was like, it actually makes sense if Sam's like, I don't care. I'm going to book something else that day. Yeah. But you know what? Like the way Carla is, and again, we'll get to that. But like that makes sense for what she was like in Cheers and their relationship. I don't think Sam was necessarily that fond of Cliff, but I find it hard to believe a loyal customer for that long. Sam didn't strike me as the type of guy that was going to be like, I'm going to plan something on your retirement so I don't have to go and you can't do it in my bar. Brew. Going back to the scene, you know, you hear Cliff say to Frazier like, oh, I didn't get to RSVP. So I assumed we're coming. I'm surprised that he didn't like make a joke about getting the RSVP or something or make any comment about it. It just kind of like was a comment that went undetected, untalked about. You get the impression that he didn't even get the RSVP, which is really a kind of a funny, subtle joke that the mail carrier failed to deliver a mailed letter. Do you think that was the joke? That's interesting. I think because Cliff is just always the worst mailman is what it is. Always like he's mostly hangs out at a bar even during the day and isn't delivering mail. Just that was always Cliff. So I think it makes sense. All right. We'll give it to him. I want to go back to why we couldn't have done this in Cheers. You could have easily done this in Cheers by just like doing whatever set you feel like and they would comment on how different it looked. And then you just have to like, Woody doesn't work there anymore because he probably doesn't. Right. And, you know, Sam was, you know, has pneumonia or some crap. Like you could do it. It could be a really weird choice to not put this in Cheers. Yeah. I looked it up and it does. I think part of the problem was the set for Cheers was dismantled and where it used to be. It was now the Frasier set for like Frasier's house and stuff. Oh, that's fine. Cheers wouldn't look the same at this point anyway. You don't have to keep any of them. You just kind of need a route. Like it just needs to have steps basically. You just need a brown room. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think, I think that when you look at how they treated the characters, there wasn't a whole lot of growth in the intervening years for Norm or Carla or Cliff. The characters they were able to get, they tried to kind of keep true to what they were like in Cheers. I think the set of Cheers is its own character. And if they claimed they were at Cheers and it clearly wasn't Cheers, I think they would bump people worse than we're doing this in the laziest hotel ballroom of all time. I remember this being like a big thing. Why they were bringing the Cheers characters back. And it was fun, right? That's the only reason. It was, well, as NBC was celebrating its 75th anniversary and they were having a bunch of like old characters from shows coming on to new shows and Frasier having Cheers characters was like a no brainer kind of thing. Oh, I'm more annoyed by that. That annoys me. Yeah. I really don't like that. That is kind of annoying. I like the idea of this just being some random, like, all right, we're nine seasons in. We barely referred to him. Let's bring all the Cheers guys back. Like, that's fun. This is part of like NBC's push to be annoying. I hate that. It does not affect me at all to know that there was some kind of marketing push for why they did this. I don't know why it bothers you so much. If you're going to do it, then do it in the stupid bar. I'm genuinely very annoyed right now. At the Somerville Town Crier Multipurpose Room, Frasier is greeted by Carla, Marty bonds with Norm, and Daphne is impressed by Cliff. I mean, this is what the episode was made for. And it's to see everybody again, have Norm walk in and everybody shouts, Norm. I did like that. Yeah, the NBC cheap plug. I'm this. This is what the fans want to see. And I think they do a good job of bringing these characters back. I enjoyed seeing them again. Well, Kenny, with the perspective you just said that this scene does everything that NBC wanted. It would be weird to bring them back and not do their calling cards. That would be strange. But all within 10 seconds. Oh, yeah. That's the right way to do it. We're not screwing around here. This is what we're paying for. If we brought them back in new Frasier, I would hope they do it the exact same way almost. Frasier almost immediately, like he's got a mug of beer and he's just like back into his old habits of cheers, like with his old friends. And I'm like, I kind of like that. And he's immediately just like, I don't care if I leave. I'm happy to be with my friends again because I have none in Seattle. Well, I do like the dynamic where at least at first, Niles is very much like, I want to go to the fancy restaurant. I don't want to be here with your weird friends. And Frasier is like having a blast. He's like, no, this is fun. We're hanging out. And Marty's loving life. This is Marty's people. Exactly. Marty's like, oh, my God. I didn't know Frasier had like good people he could be around. It was just Norm. Well, again, good people. Good person. I feel like there is a version of this episode where instead of what we get, which is the interaction with the Frasier and the Cheers characters, they could have gone the route of like just Frasier goes off. They have one scene with all the Frasier characters. And then the rest of the episode is him in Boston with a bunch of Cheers people. But I like that they found interesting pairings where like Marty and Norm kind of connect and Daphne kind of buys into what Cliff is selling. And Niles really appreciates Carla mocking Frasier. Like I like the pairings they come up with. Yeah, I thought that all worked well. It is interesting because like they draw a very clear parallel to Norm and Marty. But like Marty's clearly fell in the coach role. I think Daphne was probably supposed to mimic Carla, if I had to guess. From some of some of the little outbursts we've seen of Daphne, I think we'll see more of them in the early seasons. See, I don't know that there's a lot of one to one transferring Cheers characters into Frasier characters. I feel like they're distinct. I just think they found interesting ways to pair them. I think there's more comparisons than I expected. And this episode helped highlight some of that. But there is obviously some choices they made to go the other way, which is fine too. So Sam and Frasier are both supposed to be like kind of douchey, attractive guys who end up, you know, doing things good enough times that you root for them. That's pretty similar. Tenuous at best, but go ahead. I think that's every main character. But yeah. No, that's not true. I like Sam and Frasier are especially flawed, I think, for main characters of long running sitcoms. I understand the parallel you're making. I would just say that the core of Sam's character is that he is a cool guy everybody likes. And the core of Frasier's character is that he is a doofus that everybody mocks. Yeah, I would agree. I don't see the parallel. Like other than like Sam was a womanizer and Frasier in Frasier is always fun days. Frasier wants to be. He wants to be, but he isn't really. He was a little bit in Cheers, too, though. They had multiple scraps of her. Certainly Diane and I think some other women. You sold me. Frasier is Sam Malone. I don't want to rebut that. Well, nobody even cares to even argue. They're just like, yeah. Fair enough. I guess there's not enough. We all know that the audience listening is going to be on our side, so we don't have to fight that hard. Yeah, right. All right. I'm fighting quicksand. I'll let it go. Niles starts to get some juicy dirt on Frasier while Cliff's friends give milquetoast speeches in his honor. I like that the first story Carla tells is how they took Frasier on a snypon because I'm like, oh man, I remember that episode of Cheers. Why did you introduce me to that intoxicating sport? I'm positively hooked on it. That's a genuine episode of Cheers. It is. They kind of just summarize it, though. Yeah, they do. But I'm like, oh, it's nice that it's an actual like reference. It's very much like when friends are shooting the shit and like remembering the old times, but it's like, I don't. Do I need that? You could you could do more with that. It is exactly the nonsense I have to edit out of this show about us. Just repeating stories we all already know and our audience doesn't care about. You got to add to it a little bit if you're going to do that or hit like five of them in a row. But then just just do one. It's really weird. Of the speeches. I mean, the old man that just calls Cliff a dumb son of a bitch is my favorite. Well, you're not going to top that. That's a great move. Was he in Cheers? I didn't recognize that guy. I don't recognize that he was. I looked this up. So I was I was looking at the I actually just Googled Cheers characters. And weirdly, all of these people will show up in like the Google summary. Is that weird? They were all like background actors. Yeah. So like Paul was probably the most prominent. He was in a bunch. I remember him. He was also in a bunch, but he was much less often featured or even like he was just kind of in the background mostly. Well, yeah, because usually they had Sam Malone. Right. But the the other guy who gives a speech, the other mailman guy, apparently I did not remember him, but he was apparently a recurring Cliff Clavin nemesis. You're wearing your postal key chain and you're not on active duty. That's a direct violation of postal regulations. I'm filing a report on you. Yeah, I was going to say the the goofy like postman uniform he has with the epaulets and stuff. Like I was like, that is a goofy. Like, why is he wearing that? And then it was like, oh, that was he was playing a prank on Cliff and Cheers and claim that that was the new uniform and that Cliff had to wear. I'm proud of you, Kenny, for remembering that. BTV has been good to you. They explain in this part of the scene that he's going to Florida, but do they explain why Florida? He's old. He's old. That was the only joke. OK. Where would you ascend Cliff Clavin? Arizona or why? Because he's old. Yeah. The same reason. But he seems like more of an Arizona guy than a Florida guy. You have to explain if you're going to do this. You don't think that Cliff Clavin could be a landmark Florida man? No, I think he's I think he's more like go with the flow, chill in the sun, you know, not try like drive a lot of places. I don't think you've ever watched Cheers. Hang out in the hills, in the mountains. He's only seen the 90s episodes of Cheers. He doesn't know. Thank you. Kenny's got my back tonight. You still get Cliff Clavin, right? Like he's the perfect Florida man. Just spouting crazy shit in Florida. People are like, yeah, he belongs in Florida. Well, I do like that he taught Tafti about dolphin language. That's always good. I did like how into Cliff Clavin stuff she was. By the way, I got to say about the dolphin thing real quick. My husband can do an impression of a dolphin voice. We had no idea where you're going with that one. Here's the thing. Every time he does it, and I don't know why it keeps coming out, probably because I cannot do a dolphin thing. Did you say it keeps coming up? It keeps happening, and he will do it. You keep asking him to do it. It'll sound like a dolphin, and then as soon as I hear it, I'm like, I gotta try. If we don't hear it, it's not making the cut. Ah! Nope. You were off mic. You gotta do it lower pitch. Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! It's like a lamb is being murdered. No, it's always more lamb than dolphin. It's definitely lamb being slowly suffocated. Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! Ah! That was even worse. That was... Ah! Ah! I assumed, Curt, you've never seen Paw Patrol. Kenny, have you seen Paw Patrol? Of course I've seen some Paw Patrol. That was the mayor guy. Ah! Just complaining about anything. Ah! Ah! I haven't seen him in a few years. Ah! I remember the mayor being like a lady with a chicken in her purse. That's just fucking weird. It's a guy. At least the ones I've seen. They might have changed. Maybe there was an election. She lost because she was a crazy lady with a chicken in her purse. This mayor fired all of our city's police officers, firefighters, and paramedics and replaced them with a group of six talking dogs. And I say it's time to vote her out. I don't know. This guy was just a bad guy. Oh. Maybe he lost. Maybe he lost and she took over. Anyway, the point is I can't do it. Can you do the mayor impression one more time? Ah, well. Oh, burp. Yeah, you can keep that up. Okay, I had to look it up. There are two different mayors. The evil mayor is a mayor of a rival city. Oh. Go figure. Oh, you can see how much I pay attention. Listen, nobody should be paying attention to that show. That show sucks. Yeah, it's just a money grab like this episode. Having said that, I look forward to you guys' backwards watch of Paw Patrol. Oh, my God. It would be insane. This is the exact reason we want to do Fast and Furious. It's like, it would be bananas. We get a title card. Other nicknames he considered were Tiger and the Duke. Cliff runs out of his party, upset that no one cares he is leaving for Florida. Frazier offers to get everyone to say some nice words. Was Big Shooter a throwback to Cheers? It feels like it might have been now that we've been talking. I didn't pick up on it during the episode, but I feel like it did come up in Cheers. That could be. I don't know. I think in this scene, Carla refers to either Frazier or Niles as White Bread. I like that nickname. It's a good nickname for them, I guess. I feel like it's a good nickname for almost anyone white. I could pull off that nickname. What do you mean pull it off? You'd be Rye Bread. Oh, that's true. Yeah, that's a good. That's my, I am Rye Bread. Yeah. Wait, Brad's Rye Bread? Well, I know that your name is Ryan, but he's Jewish. Yeah, thank you. I was waiting for that comment. I thought, because, you know, Ryan. It doesn't have to be your name. You wouldn't be Brad Brad? Ryan, you would be Focaccia. You'd be an English muffin, Curtis. Oh, okay. Curtis is white bread. Kenny doesn't get a bread. Kenny's a lettuce wrap. Not sure if this is the best episode of the podcast or the worst whatever. I mean, at least we're moving along this time. We haven't been stuck in the mud on it up in a while, so it's interesting. I don't remember the last one. The last one I was on, I felt like lasted six hours at record. Is there anything else to talk about this scene, Ryan? It's an, I tell you what, this episode has a lot of small scenes that don't really have much you can say about them. That's exactly, yeah. In this scene, it came across as like, we're not doing a Frasier episode, right? This is a Cliff Clavin episode, and that's a really weird thing to do in episode nine. Season nine. It's not a Frasier episode. We are not watching an episode of Frasier. This has nothing to do with anything, Frasier. This is a weird epilogue to Cheers. Right. Oh, and that's the other thing, right? This is the last time, presumably, we're going to see most of these characters. Maybe they'll show up in New Frasier, but that's, for at least 20 years, this was going to be the book on a lot of these characters, and it's such a weird choice, until you know it's an NBC money grab. But you also, like, you don't really know what has happened to these characters in, what, what is it, 10 years since the last episode of Cheers? Like, you don't hear anything about what they've done, really. Just small students. That's like when you watch Cheers, it feels like they just kept them on. Yeah, that show was on for 11 years. They were the same at the end of the show as the beginning. And that continued. What are you talking about? Coach was dead. One guy died, yeah. And one girl was bad enough that they had to ride her out. Worried that Cliff won't leave, Carla forces Norm to give a heartfelt speech despite his fear of hugs. But when she tries her hand at offering him praise, she devolves into personal attacks. Cliff interprets this as a form of love and vows to stay, ruining what's left of Carla's life. I mean, I will say that Carla's just insults and then her explosion when he decides not to leave and having to be carried out, I enjoyed all of that. That was on brand. It felt like they wrote her well. Yeah. Carla feels like the best part of this episode, I think. They wrote them all well, though. Like Cliff, Norm, and Carla all felt just ripped right out of the chairs. They slid back into those characters. That was the one silver lining of this episode is that they were just them again. They didn't have to like, yeah. I like when Carla somehow, for some reason, he's got a spear gun for Florida just lying around and she finds it and tries to kill him with it. That's fun. I thought there would be a weird follow-up joke with that. It's such a weird gift. I would never give Cliff Clavin a spear gun. I do agree with Ryan. I thought they were going to make a second joke, but they just didn't. So it's only the one joke, which actually the grand scheme of things kind of makes it funnier that they only used it for one joke. It is a massive prop for a wonderful one. It was. But it was funny. Giving Cliff Clavin a spear gun would be like giving Brad a spear gun. And it's just not something you do. Absolutely. I can't disagree with that one. The interaction with Marty and Norm where Marty's like, hey, come to Seattle, get in a flight, come see us. And he's like, six hours, you know, sitting there in one place, never moving. That's just not me. Yeah, it was a good line. I hated how much Norm was in love with Marty. Like, they felt like they might have a real relationship. Why are we trying to bring down Norm's character? Like, they did 11 years of good work. They'll try to ruin it, but stick him with his old man. Talking about how beer goes over their knuckles. So annoyed. I got to say, your hatred of Marty, even at this point, I don't understand why it's this deep-seated. I think you're, you'll, if you rewatch, I assume you haven't rewatched all the episodes with us. No. You're it. You guys are all in the wrong. Curtis is on my side at this point. Brad's almost there. Well, I will say, there was a moment in season 10 where I was on board. I kind of saw your perspective. That was four episodes ago. It was, I think it was mid-season 10. But either way, I feel like I did come around to your point of view on Marty. I understand where you're coming from. But I will say, in recent memory, he hasn't done anything so grandiose and good to sort of redeem him. But he's also been, he hasn't been used that much. There's nothing that makes me annoyed by him. The things he's doing in this episode, the only reason you're annoyed by them are because it's him. I feel like in this season, especially in season 9, like he hasn't done anything else besides like a good one-liner. He's had okay one-liners. But I guess my point is that your not liking of him in this episode is historical. It's based on what you already think of him. It's not because he's doing anything in this episode that's annoying. Yeah, I think if this was my first episode, I wouldn't be like, what's wrong with the old guy? He's a human piece of garbage. You'd be so confused if this is your first episode. If we were doing a Cheers rewatch backwards, we'd have to start with this episode. You'd be really confused if this was your first episode of either show. That is funny, though. If we were doing the Cheers watch, this should be the first episode. I 100% agree. Armed with a litany of embarrassing stories, Niles offers to introduce Frazier at his conference. Your intro was longer than the scene. Yeah, I mean, I was gonna say, this is a decent punchline to the whole embarrassed by the bedwetting thing. End of story. Frazier plays this out with Roz smoking and drinking with her sorority sisters at Frazier's place. This one, this pissed me off more than anything else. Yes. Really? Yes. Same. Same. Yes. Because I saw this and I was like, damn, we should have got like two or three great scenes of what happened instead of just this. I get why we stayed with the Cheers gang. This shouldn't have been the B plot. We should have done this in a different episode and just explored it. That could have been a ton of fun. I was like so angry when I was watching this. I was like, are you being serious? To be clear, you're upset that you didn't get more of it, correct? Correct. I mean, I didn't think that the scrambled eggs bit was particularly good. I thought, you know, they're doing visual bits. We could have had a lot of fun in Frazier's apartment with a bunch of former sorority girls. Correct. Like they should have went to the opera and done the, you know, whatever. But they shouldn't have done the bring back all the Cheers guys for that bit. I suppose I agree. I feel like I would not have mind this fleshed out, but it did not bother me that I didn't get more of this. The only thing that I noticed in this is like her whole thing is she's on the phone the whole time and she's sort of going around the room and you see more and more of like what's going down. But I'm not sure what the phone had it. Like she could have just been hanging out laughing with her sorority sisters. The fact that she had all of them over and basically ignores them to be on the phone with somebody is kind of a strange move. Yeah. Like a lot of the tossed salad bits. It's not that fun. Toss salad bits are horrible so far. I don't know if they get better, but my introduction to them in the real Frasier are they're horrible. New Frasier does it way better, which is crazy. Well, Kenny. Yeah. Did you like this episode? You know, as somebody who's not barreling through the bad seasons of Frasier like regularly, I mean, I enjoyed it. I like seeing the Cheers people. So I guess I just like cheer. I'm like, oh, it's nice to see him. I think they do a good job of bringing those guys back. And that's what it's really about. It's not really an episode about Frasier in any way, but this is an episode that's like, hey, enjoy everybody's favorite sitcom from the 80s. Nah, I'm cool with that. That's it. Fair enough. Brad, what about you? So if I was raking in as an episode of Frasier, I'd give it a much less score, but I'm going to rake it as an episode of, you know, The Cliff Show, because that's pretty much what it was. I think that's fair. As an episode of The Cliff Show, I'm going to give it a, you know, B minus because it was somewhat funny, but the story, there wasn't really a story, but there were some funny bits. So I'll give it a B minus. What would you give it as a Frasier episode? D minus. I'm sorry. Why do you think it didn't have a story? It definitely had a story. Sorry. The story was Cliff possibly retiring, possibly going to Florida, then not going to Florida. If you're doing a Cliff Clavin episode, they have crushed the story. It makes a ton of sense. I think they executed that part very well. In 30 minutes. Yeah. Which is what you would do. It's a sitcom. He's holding out for the Cliff Clavin movie. If you had an hour and a half to do a Cliff Clavin movie, I don't know what the fuck you would write. I thought this made tons of sense. Curtis, what do you think of this? I didn't really particularly like this episode. I gave it 54 out of 62. I think it was better than CBGBs, but worse than Crocktails. And my reasoning is I felt like this was, like we talked about, like there's a lot of little scenes where there's not much to talk about. That's because they were kind of boring. I like seeing the Cheers gang, but I feel like we didn't get, we got a few good little chunks with them. But mostly I just feel like we're in, like the drab ballroom they're in feels like a metaphor for the episode. It's just really bland. And I feel like as a last moment with these Cheers gang, I would have wanted something a little bit meatier. I did not rank this very highly. Ryan, you're upside downer. Where does this rank? I don't agree with you at all. Well, let me, let me start by saying I wrote down 8.2. Okay. Okay. Learning this was a stupid NBC ploy. Now it's a one. Yeah, you really did take, you really, that really did offend you. It drops it a lot. I think I don't agree with you at all, Curt. I think that we got a lot of the Cheers guys and I think that they did a really good job integrating them in a way that made enough sense. Again, I would have went to Cheers, but whatever. Now that I know that it is an NBC marketing ploy, I almost would rank it higher because knowing this was probably a little bit last minute, they didn't have the time and the money to really do it properly. This was not them attempting to do a great Cheers reunion. This was just throwing something together. And for that, it's fine. If this was their like love song to Cheers, I would be offended by it. That's fair. When I was watching it, I kind of had the impression that they thought they might do more Cheers episodes. So I didn't think this was the closing the book of these characters, or at least the way they intended it to. You thought watching this, that this was like a backdoor pilot to a Cheers revival? No, no, no. I just thought, I thought that like watching it, that they thought they would get another episode with these guys or something like that. And when you compare it to the other episodes in season nine, this is easily the best. I mean, no question. Okay. So are you still at an 8.2? Where are we at? No, no. We're definitely at a 7.1. But the episode moved. Everyone fired. We had good moments. I don't know what you're talking about. Well, we always like to disagree. So. Well, we probably agree now, but for stupid reasons. Half of the Cheers gang didn't show up to Cliff's retirement party, but will they be at ours? It's another edition of The Draft Beer. More like Draft Cheers. Well, that's really close to being good. Knocking on the doorstep of being all right. We are each going to draft Cheers characters who we would most want to join our own retirement party. And this is going to be what I, I don't know if this is a real term, but I'm calling it a popcorn snake draft. Yeah, close enough. It's you so much. As our guest, Kenny, you will be our first person to draft somebody. Then after you pick your person, you're going to choose which of the three of us gets to go next. And then whoever goes second gets to pick the person that goes third. And then once we've got our draft order, we're going to use that to snake back and forth. Ew, Curt. Disgusting. Wow. That hurts my head. Why did you add the way that you do like out loud reading in seventh grade? Why'd you add that to a draft? Because I knew it would torture you. I've given you a list of Cheers characters and a list of Frasier characters. I'm thinking rather than mixing them all together, let's just start with Cheers. Let's, let's get two rounds of Cheers and then we'll do a couple rounds of Frasier characters. How does that sound? After we have one round of popcorn. That's right. Kenny, you get the popcorn first. Who are you picking from Cheers? I will give a list of the people we're considering for this. This is in no particular order. This is truly random order. Woody, Frasier, Diane, Rebecca, Norm, Cliff, Lilith, Sam, Coach, and Carla. And this is for our retirement? When you retire, which of these people, presuming they're actually alive and not a zombie, who in their prime would you want to be at your party? Do you want to explain the spreadsheet you've created for the audience? Why? It's the most curtest thing I've ever seen. We're doing a draft and Curt goes, let's go to Excel. In case it would be helpful to you, I was going to drag and drop the names of the people you choose under your name so that you can keep track of who's got what team they're building. Thank you, Curtis. I'm so excited. It might be easier visually than me just reading them off every time. All right, let's get started. Kenny, who are you picking? I mean, I'm going to start with Coach. Yeah, good first pick. Good first pick. That is a really good first pick. He's a good guy to have at a party, I think. He's just a sweet old man. Who doesn't want that? Question, Curt, what year is this? Is this our retirement? So it is your retirement, but this is not the ghost zombie of Coach. This is like 1983 Coach. Yeah. Oh, so we get everyone in their prime. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. And you get the best part of all, which is like you get to show them your phone or your hologram device that you'll have when you retire. So you get to really impress them with your magic technology. Man, can you imagine getting to show your phone to Coach? I win. I just won this whole thing. That does change some of the picks, I think. That's interesting. If you showed your iPhone to Coach and were like, this is a phone, he would look at you with that sort of, oh, poor guy doesn't know what a phone is. I think it's a trick, Sam. That's what's so great about Coach. Coach is maybe my favorite dumb character in any sitcom because he is like dumb, but he also like, oh. And if you call him out on being dumb, he immediately is like, you know, you're right. I'm an idiot. He's highly redeemable as well, though. Exactly. Unlike Marty. Yeah. All right. I pick who goes next. Yes, you do. All right. I'll pick Ryan. Why not? Oh, yes. Okay. So this is a cheers only round? Yes. Yep. I did think it was hard when I saw Coach, but Woody's definitely the number two. I'm so excited about Woody. Damn it. Damn it. Damn it. Oh, damn it. God damn it. What the? Oh. I would have taken Woody as one, but Coach is a strong, before knowing about the weird tech bit, Coach is a strong kick anyway. Damn it. One kind of replaces the other. So they're very in the same vein. Yeah. Yeah. Except that Woody can also drink. Like I get prime Woody, which means he's throwing back shots. Like we're having a good old time. All right, Brian, who is going third? Oh, right. Your format. Obviously, I will go Brad to, I think, punish you. I don't know. It's hard to tell with popcorn snake who he punishes who. Ryan totally messed my game up. I'm going to have to go back to my draft board. I am somebody who does not stop moving. You know, I'm pretty jittery. I don't move. I don't stop moving. So I'm going to go with the character that's pretty much the exact opposite of me. And I'm going to go with Norm. Oh, that's interesting. That is interesting. Norm would hate you. Yeah. I don't know. I just need somebody that's the complete opposite of me at this point. So I'm going Norm. Norm's interesting because he's like, like to talk to him, he seems like a congenial guy you'd enjoy chatting with. But he probably wants to ignore you and just drink all of your beer. Like that's an expensive choice. Do we get a chance to meet him ahead of time? Or is Norm meeting Brad at his retirement party? I think he's meeting him at the retirement party. I think that's got to be it. That's the vibe I got. Everybody gets to shout Norm when he walks in. And who doesn't want that? That's really, that's a really strong point, Kenny. Thank you, Kenny. Kenny really has my back tonight. I tried, but you guys didn't understand me. I still don't understand what you're trying to say. I can't wait for Curtis to listen to that and try to make sense of it. It's now obviously my turn and we're snaking. So I actually get to go twice. And so this offers a really interesting choice because I can pair two people together. So I'm going to start with a Cliff Clavin. Now that might be surprising. That is surprising. Does you remember him because we just watched an episode about him? But it's because I'm going to pair him with Carla. Well, I mean, it's entertainment. Yeah, I think that's going to be fun to see. Like that's entertainment. I don't have to pay for a band or for like anyone else to entertain the people. Like that is going to be the people watching for the show. So I mean, it's a pretty good choice. Brad, it's back to you. Yeah, I have to go with the obvious one for me. You know, being somebody who identifies as Jewish, I'm going to have to go with Lilith. I think her and I would actually get along. I think we're very similar. Oh my God, what a terrible pick. You've got Norm and Lilith at yours. Yeah. You just want as many people that won't talk to you as possible. Here's the thing. Would you expect anything different at my retirement party? Like this is the energy. You said I'm going to go like true to myself or whatever you said. I couldn't imagine who you were going to say. I can't believe you picked the worst pick of the nine. This is what I think most people would expect at my going away party. Like just a bunch of weirdos. Total unforced error. If you imagine that this is like the only people going, like I did not specify that, but if we assume the only people that will be at the party at all are these people. I've got just a fight. You've got the quietest room ever. And both Ryan and Kenny managed to have a party with one person there. Kenny and I can take a pass and we still win this. Well, Ryan, how are you going to beat that? I didn't think Sam was going to be on the board. I'm obviously going to take Sam. Him and Woody had great chemistry. He's obviously great at the bar. I know I had two options to pick him. It is shocking how late in the game he's getting chosen. Was not even considering him. I genuinely was like, could I have coach and Sam? That could happen the way this is going. Yeah, you could have. It was close. It just makes no sense not to take him, but I'm not Brad. So, I mean, I, at this point I would pick Rebecca. Cause I can't remember her enough. I watched all of cheers, but like, I don't, she just didn't stand out. The only reason I even go for it is a coach and Rebecca were never in the same scenes. They were never in the same season. So, you know, get them to meet each other. Why not? You get to write some original content. Nice. No. Paul B would be so jealous. Can we stop for a second? Cause when, cause I'm, I'm actually looking at what Curtis wrote together. When you look at it, I really look bad compared to you guys. Well, and when you, Dan wouldn't talk, you looked bad. When you, when you read it, it just comes off even worse. I don't think so. Oh no. Oh no. I'm right. I gotta be honest. I will agree with that. When I read these, like coach and Rebecca, Woody and Sam, and off a cliff it goes Norm and Lilith. And then maybe somehow, maybe even further. I know that I chose them, but somehow even further might be Cliff and Carla. Now your cliff, Carla makes sense. They're dynamos together. The funny thing is, I think if you had picked anybody else to pair with Norm, you might've gotten away with it. Yeah. Right. The worst person. Cause Norm is, I like Norm, but then you put it with Lilith and he doesn't want to talk to Lilith and he doesn't want to talk to you. Have they ever interacted? Oh yeah. Not much. I mean, they did because I remember there's an episode where Freddie, when he was a baby, Fraser keeps bringing Freddie to the bar and Lilith is pissed at him. Norm walks in and the baby's first word is Norm. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I even knew this. That was really funny. Clearly she would hate him. All right. We've got two more rounds of this. I think we can open up the Fraser characters now. I'll read them off. We've got Kenny Daly, Gil Chesterton, Martin Crane, Gertrude Moon, Daphne Moon, Niles Crane, Bulldog Frank, Roz Doyle, Nolshemski, BB, Ronnie Lawrence, and Eddie Crane. So we're obviously not going to be able to pick all of these. Some of these are going to be left unpicked and I think that's fine. You can still pick Fraser and Diane. So Kenny, it's back to you. While you're thinking about it, I like that Kenny is first. Niles comes in sixth for your people you've listed for Fraser characters. Well, he was putting them in a random order. These were in random order. Yeah. Except he just was like, moon, moon. Yeah. What do you say? Random. First of all, why were they in random order? Second of all, they weren't. I didn't want to rank the characters because I didn't want it to be obvious. I just, I wanted it to seem random. So you were deciding what you think the best character is. Not like, no one, no one would have gotten off your rankers. To make a really long story short, Curtis really overthought this. Good to know. Weird. I'm trying to think who would go good in this group. I mean, I'm glad you're struggling. I got a strong two. I'm excited to get either one of them. I know exactly who Ryan's going to pick. I mean, I think at this point I would throw, I don't know. I guess I'd throw Fraser into it at this point. Because I feel like, I don't remember how much interaction he had with Coach, but I just feel like Fraser and Coach are so opposite that that's kind of entertaining. We get it, Kenny. You love cheers. You're only going to take cheers, guys. We understand. So this works out kind of nicely because Kenny has not seen new Fraser. And the part I've not told you yet is that there is a secret new Fraser character tied to each one of the Fraser characters. So here's how this is going to work. Oh, no. Whatever Fraser character you pick, you are going to get a secret, hidden new Fraser character as well that you don't get to pick. They just are tied to them. And because Fraser and Diane were the only two cheers characters left and they were not tied to a new Fraser character, they're a pair. You get both of them. Oh, Kenny, you get screwed. You know what? Here's the thing, though. Unlike Ryan, I don't hate Diane. What do you mean unlike Ryan? They wrote her off the show. It wasn't made. I didn't choose that. She left the show. Yeah, it was her choice. She left. She quit the show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She was like, I'm going to go try and be in a movie. I'm going to be a movie star. She quit the show because they didn't have anything for her. I think she was right to leave the show in that she was like, I think we've run out of Sam and Diane stuff. This is not a cheers podcast about seriously talking about cheers. You pair Diane and Fraser together. What do we have to talk about in a little bit? Yeah. I mean, here's the thing. I don't really hate what I've got here. You got the last cheers character of the draft. I'll tell you that much is obvious. Yeah, I did. All right, Ryan, it is now your time. Break time. Let's go. Free pick. Yeah, no one was surprised by that one. You are. Go ahead. No, I don't want to say anything else. I want to see who I get secretly paired with. Oh, that was a complete steal. You're getting Smokey, one of the female firefighter from New Fraser. You guys enjoy her. I do not. I'm just excited. Oh, good. Then I'm happy. I don't understand who this person is because I've never watched New Fraser. And why would I? Even if you did, there's not much to talk about. I enjoy Woody, Sam, and Frank as a combo. I don't think I can get caught at this point. I think my team's untouchable. It's going to be. Yeah, it's going to. You're going to have to get like Gertrude to lose. Brad, it's your turn. Yeah. So I changed my answer. What I was originally going to say, because I'm looking at my list. I need someone fun. It's dire. But I also. You're going to continue. I'm going to continue on the track of just weirdos, but exciting weirdos. So no. I'm going to go with BB. Oh, that's such a bad pick. Well, OK. Yes. I'm going to pause everyone. I don't remind you. I've seen BB three times and one of them's in New Fraser. I'm going to throw that out there. I don't think I'm supposed to hear that. Yeah. You just gave something away. You're not supposed to do, Ryan, but that's OK. You also get Moose, which I know you love. Oh, I'm so happy now. Finally, you've got a character. Moose and Norn together. That's going to be great. This is what happened. Brad said he needed to get a good, fun party person. He picked somebody that is not that, but still managed to get what he was hoping for. He's getting Moose. You know, Ryan's the only person that's going to understand this. Sometimes draft steals. You know, you just never see them coming. A guy will come out of nowhere and really steal the drafts for you. So this is like, I think you basically, you get like a trade or something that worked out. This is crazy. This is, well, I went from, I went from like a D to a B plus quickly. Oh, it's for this pick. Yeah. For this, just this pick. I. Do you know the random people or do you not know the random people? Well, that is the other reason I made everything randomized is so that I hid. So what you can't see on the spreadsheet because you are a listener who is not looking at our Google doc. I have put in white text on a white background, all the names for the new Frasier characters. I randomized them. So I do not know who is paired with which Frasier character. So this will be a surprise to me as well. And I'm trying to think about somebody fun to add to this. So you've got, you've got combative energy. I know. What are you trying to bring to the party with this next pick? I feel like I need something to chill the mood out a little bit, but who isn't going to be completely turned off by the chaos. And I got to go with Ronnie. I feel like Ronnie is. Oh, she would have been my next pick. Me too. Yeah. I feel like she's a really fun person. You're never getting her, Ryan. It was never going to get to you. Well, no, I was between Frank and Ronnie was my two. I don't know why you didn't pick her. Oh, and it backfires immediately because I also get David. Who? Who are these people? Just for you, Kenny, and for anybody who doesn't watch New Frasier, Smokey and Moose are both kind of occasional characters from New Frasier. They're firefighter friends of Freddy's. Old firefighter friends. David is Niles' son. Oh. Oh, okay. And annoying. I assume you remember Ronnie from last season of Frasier. Yeah, I remember Ronnie. Do you remember Frank? Frank? No. Aaron Eckert. The star of season 11? All I know of Frank is that you guys all got erections for him. Oh, that's right. You listened to those episodes. Okay. All right. I wish you did those episodes of the podcast, but I didn't watch the episode that he was in. So all I know of Frank is that you guys really like him for some reason. He's awesome. What do you mean for some reason? I really got to do something quick because Ronnie buoyed me and then David sunk me. I'll tell you what. I actually think David works better for the Cliff Carla. He would be trying to help out. That's true. And he would make both sides worse. I think he actually, it is, I actually might be your best use of David if I'm looking across the board. So you could have, you could have got screwed more, I think. Yeah, I'm with you. I'm thinking who, who else can I pick? Who's going to be good? I know that it cannot be Daphne because that would pair her with David and they're never going to be in the room together. So. This is mom. We're going to go with Roz because. This is our last, this is our last pick. Yeah. This is our last pick. I'm going with Roz. I feel like she is a, another, like she's very similar to the Ronnie energy. She's just a, she's a safe pick. You should have like, Brad should have picked her. Oh, and I get Tiny, which is another one of the firefighters. I love that none of the, none of the actual main characters from New Frasier are showing up in this list. Most random people. Tiny's a strong pick. I basically just won this. I basically have Barista Steve. I think you have Barista Steve. I still think it's Canada. That's a huge pickup. Huge last round pickup. We're finally competing with Ryan. Brad, what are you going to do? Brad has literally no chance of winning anything with this lineup. I don't know what the fuck he's going to do. No. And because of that, I think I'm just going to, I'm going to dig in and I'm going to make it even weirder. You might as well at this point. Yeah. Yeah. It's your only move. I'm going to do it. I'm going to go Noel. Yeah. It was Noel or Eddie. Those were your two choices. I had to go Noel. I feel like it's going to pay off though. Who am I getting Curtis? Your, uh, your other person is Eve. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to do it. It doesn't do anything. No. It doesn't make it worse or better. This is like the worst lineup to implement Eve with as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, I'm going to, I'm going to call, I had the worst draft. It doesn't matter what you can do. We really, I mean, let's just read it off for the, for everybody because we don't need to revisit it after this moment. No. Torm. Honestly, not a bad pick at all. I think that was a pretty safe. It's a solid base. You could have built around it and started Brad one brand. You immediately followed up with Lilith, which is just insane energy. You throw in psychotic BB. And by the way, you got BB Newerth and BB. That's not going to get confusing. You've got Moose in there, which starts to like rebuild your broken team. And then you just sort of throw in the towel and Noel and you know, whatever Eve. Yeah. We had a great reaction to Eve. Both Ryan and I were like, eh. It's just the wrong place for Eve to show up. Yeah. Alrighty. Oh, well. He caught me in bed with his wife. Can I have a turn with her? I thought we'd freeze your sperm. Whoa. Slow down. Don't get me wrong. I love the guy. And how's that working for you? You're not going to get an RFC feedback from me, Brad, for your crew retirement party. Ryan, it's your turn. What do you got? As long as I avoid some of the busts of the draft, I feel like I can't really lose. So I'm just going to, I'm going to play it safe. I'm going to throw Daphne in there. Yeah. That was smart. I'm very curious to see who you get though. And the big reveal is Freddy. No. Oh, it's the only way we could bring down the mood was Freddy. No. Yeah. And he can't even shot Norm. He doesn't even get that chance. Oh, that was a nightmare pick. This is bad. That's not a good pick. Kenny, I think you're somehow still in the game here. What are you going to do? I gave you a real chance. Uh, I think, I mean, I got Frazier. I think having a Niles in the game with him is not a bad thing. They, I liked the way they banter. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. That was a great banter. Yeah. There's some chemistry there and you get old Lilith. Old Lilith. I've got anybody that Frazier tried to have sex with. I wish, I wish Brad would have got old Lilith. That would have been amazing. I think you might win, Kenny. You might win. I just got, I got the two main leads of Frazier. I've got Toach who honestly was coach alone. I get to show him a phone and I think that's going to be better than Woody seeing a phone. Woody seeing a phone is going to be great. I don't like, I I'm fine there. Oh, I'm just saying. I think coach is going to have the more confused reaction. Yeah. But not by much. The Sam Diane energy is good. Okay. Curt read them off or whatever. Yeah. You've got coach Ernie Pantuso, Rebecca Howe, Frazier Crane, Diane Chambers, Niles Crane, and the old version of Lilith from new Frazier. Diane there just attempted to tell me that there's no such thing as a snipe. They will say anything and keep me at home. I'm telling you the truth. I don't like to see you suffer. You're not prepared at all tonight. And I'm really in the mood. I think the banana went off. It is. You're right. It's basically all of Frazier's old love interests, I guess, and coach just hanging out with him. And Niles. Niles is not one of Frazier's old love interests. Oh, this is a crazy spoiler. I'm sorry. I, I, I apologize. I, I, I don't know. I think I did pretty good. I think given the circumstances. Yeah. How do you think they're going to hang? Because it is a weird group. I don't care. It'll be a, I mean, I think Frazier having such hatred towards Diane for what she did. And he's going to have, you know, he's got his whole relationship with Lilith. I think it's going to happen. You're going to have, you're going to have Niles and Frazier on one side of the room. You're going to have all the women on the other side of the room. They're going to be nervous about each other. And coach is going to be the go-between. Are you saying Rebecca and Diane are hanging out? Because that, that'd be a weird combo. That's see, that's another thing where I don't think it's bad. Because I'm like, eh, they don't ever interact in the show. Yeah, I get a, the replacement with, with the original. We kind of, uh, assumed Ryan was going to win originally. So let's just read off mine and see if there's any, any chemistry happening. I've got Cliff Clavin, Carla Tortelli, Ronnie Lawrence, David Crane, Roz Doyle, and Tiny. You know, a lot of chaos up front. And then some really chill people. And then, yeah, it's kind of a mix of real chaotic energy and chill energy. I don't know. I feel like this is a weird balance I've struck. You have, but it's just not exciting. I don't agree. I like Ronnie and Cliff energy. I like Ronnie and Carla energy. I think she would get a kick out of both of them. And then I think Dave would be trying to cool them down. I really like that as a, as a core four. Yeah. You just don't, I like, I don't think Roz brings anything to the party at that point, which is tough. Yeah. It's weird when Roz is, is kind of the odd man out, huh? I'm the birthday coordinator. Used to be, I'd go out and get a little wild on my birthday. Now I go out and get a little dinner. I felt guilty about eating fun of that orphan. I basically just sat there and made boring small talks. The way you talk and talk and talk about nothing. Ooh, gotta take a break from all that pattying. Yeah. I don't know what you could have done. I think, I think you got screwed basically. You got draft screwed. Well, talk about draft screwed. Let's talk about Ryan. He's got Woody Boyd, Sam Malone. Those are two wildly solid picks. He gets Frank, which is, we all have erections right now just hearing the name. Yeah. We could just stop there, but I mean, I get two other people that are fun. Smokey, who is fine. Ryan doesn't care for her, but I think she's a good pick. Daphne, which is, I think, kind of interesting. I don't know how she would interact with these others. And then you got Freddy, who's just a total dud, but you know, whatever. I don't think he can sink Sam enough. I think that's where I'm fine. I feel like if you had gotten old Frasier goth Freddy, you'd be in a better position right now than if you get the new Frasier Freddy. New Frasier Freddy is a tough throw in. It's about the worst case I could have gotten, I think. I've been tracking a pod of humpback whales. Don't tell me. Let me guess. That must be the bee, right? I thought we were talking about a cow. They're my friends. You guys are brainiacs. All I know is fire hot, water cold. Boy, this is definitely weird. Whatever, dweebs. That's it. I'm out. I'm going to the party across the hall. I think we can't end this without having somebody be the best retirement party. And Brad, since we've only really been able to agree on you have the worst, I think you should pick. Because Brad's proven to be so good at picking things. Yeah. I mean. Brad, why don't you power rank him? And then whoever gets. Whoever gets third place in Brad's power rank will be the winner. Curtis is my third. There's no doubt in my mind. Your list is fine. It's just not exciting. Ryan, you have a great list. Kenny, I think you win because of just the Frasier energy. It's all about Frasier in your list. So I think I got to give it to you. It's all about Frasier. He went first four picks were all from the trips. But it was a Frasier energy. Once I had Frasier and Diane, I thought I have to go Niles at that point. Yeah. So I think you win, Kenny. Congratulations. Heck yeah. I think, Craig, you should be celebrating the real win because Brad picked you third. Well, I mean, I may not be celebrating, but I'm certainly not upset about it. But Ryan, why don't you tell us if we're going to be upset next week when we cover the previous episode at season nine, episode 20, The Love You Fake. I had a really tough time with this. I thought of a couple other Frasier episodes we've already seen that would have fit the bill here. I assume the title's about Frasier, but I couldn't come up with anything that wasn't done. So I just wrote, Niles accidentally proposes to Daphne. I don't know. Look, if this show has taught you anything, especially this episode, is some of the episodes have nothing to do with Frasier. So you're fine. Yeah, definitely. I mean, this season has had very little to do with Frasier to this point. And I would love to say, like, it's crazy to think an engagement, which we know that they're engaged. The idea that the engagement would be that short is a little bit crazy. But that's what this show is doing. Like, they're just rushing through milestones. Yeah. It doesn't quite match the pacing we saw of Marty proposing to Ronnie. But, like, episode-wise, it does. You know, from the amount of times we saw the two interact was about five episodes. So, I don't know. Again, it's probably about Frasier, but I have no idea what it could be if it wasn't stuff we've already seen. So it's very confusing. Fair enough. Well, that will do it for us. Thank you to Kenny for joining us. Kenny. Thank you for having me. Thanks to Gavin McLeod for our theme music, and thank you for listening. I suppose you don't really care if this podcast is successful. You would never take five minutes out of your precious day to go to Apple Podcasts and leave us a review. You don't use Facebook, YouTube, or Instagram, or TikTok. You aren't curious what happens if you search for Reverse Psych Pod. Lord knows you can't be bothered to shoot us an email at reversepsychpod at gmail.com. And for myself, Ryan, Brett, and Kenny, Curtis has eaten the burrito. You don't speak for Kenny. True. True. True. But like Marty's clearly filling the coach roll. I'm very sorry. He's filling the cooch roll? I think I coughed a little bit. The coach roll. He's not filling the cooch roll. Do you want to get into that? That's a different show.